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A Confederacy of Dunces - spoilers - March 2012
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Kathleen
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Mar 19, 2012 10:33AM
I have been afraid to write anything about our March book, for fear of spoiling it for someone else. I have about 30 pages left though and then I will be dying to discuss. I thought those of us finished prior to the end of March could use this topic to discuss this book in detail (with no need to monitor for possible spoilers).
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An excellent idea, Kathy. A prime example of why I feel blessed to have you as a co-moderator.
Mod
Discussion Questions
1. Walker Percy (in the Introduction) uses the words gargantuan and Falstaffian to describe Ignatius. Is it only his size that makes Ignatius seem larger than life? Percy likens him to the late screen comic Oliver Hardy. To which more recent personalities could Ignatius be compared?
2. The first chapter of A Confederacy of Dunces is generally thought to be among the funniest in American literature. Do you agree? What other comic novels remind you of A Confederacy of Dunces and why?
3. Ignatius constantly criticizes and deprecates his mother while relying on her to keep his life together. Does she feel the same way about her son? What does she need from him and what does she get for her pains?
4. The city of New Orleans plays a central role in the novel, seeming to be a character in and of itself. ould this novel have been set in another American city? Elaborate.
5. Project Ignatius and Myrna into the future. They are supposed to be in love, but find themselves fighting before ever leaving the city. Will they make it to New York? Can New York survive Ignatius? What possibilities do you see for them?
6. Ignatius is a virgin, but Myrna declares herself to be sexually uninhibited. Is each telling the truth? Can you see them becoming intimate? Discuss this in light of your own experience or that of a friend’s.
7. Ignatius thinks of himself as a knight errant seeking to set the modern world in line with his theories of good taste and solid geometry. Are his efforts doomed to failure? Has he chosen his quests unwisely or does the fault lie in his personality? Is the way he views the world askew?
8. Is Ignatius purely lazy or does his attitude toward work reflect his disdain for the modern world of commerce? Ignatius feels he is an anachronism. Where would he fit in?
9. Although the book is longer than the average novel, Walker Percy fought against it being severely edited. What do you think of his decision? If you were to expand or cut something, what would it be?
10. The book is elaborately plotted, but does it work? What do you find unbelievable or improbable?
11. In the forty years since A Confederacy of Dunces was written our attitudes toward what constitutes pornography have changed. Given the same circumstances, would Lana Lee be arrested today for her bird show? Develop a scenario suitable for today’s more permissive times.
12. It is unusual for a current novel to use written dialect. Would A Confederacy of Dunces be the same if characters like Burma and Santa spoke in standard English?
13. In the twenty-plus years since its publication A Confederacy of Dunces has become a cult novel. What does that mean to you? Give examples of other cult novels you may have read. Have you joined in slavish devotion to any of these works?
14. In a letter dated March 5, 1965, Toole critiques his own novel writing that he “was certain that the Levys were the book’s worst flaw” and “that couple kept slipping from my grasp as I tried to manipulate them throughout the book” (Nevils and Hardy, page 139). What did he mean? And do you agree? Are they the only characters who don’t come to life? Toole lauds other characters as being representative of New Orleans. Who do you think they might be?
(Questions issued by publisher.)
I posted my review for CofD on March 8th which in retrospect I should have (clearing throat nervously) cleared that with the moderators before posting. I moved CofD up in my reading schedule and it read so quickly that I finished early in the month. I did try to write a review without spoilers. I merely pointed out what I found most interesting in my 2nd reading of CofD. If anyone wishes to see my review, here is the link. http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/... As I'm sure you all know Mike Sullivan wrote an excellent review and I am looking forward to reading everyone else's reviews as time allows them to finish the book.
Mike wrote: "Following are a series of Discussion Questions regarding COD, from Litlovers. com. They definitely provide issues for comment.Discussion Questions
1. Walker Percy (in the Introduction) uses th..."
Mike, your thorough list of questions makes me feel like writing a paper! I agree that the first chapter is far and away the funniest thing I have ever read in my life. Honestly, there isn't another novel that I can compare to this one. What an absolute shame that Toole didn't find life worth living. It makes me sad to think of it.
Mod
Diane wrote: "I am fascinated by the difference of opinions for this book. Why is it that some of us find Ignatious absolutely hilarious, while others of us (myself included) find him to be utterly repugnant? ..."Diane, it is interesting how no one seems to be in the "middling" category on this one. Strong emotions, positive or negative, are all you seem to find. I am someone who beyond finding Ignatius hilarious was pretty fond of him by the end and was really pleased that he had a happy (or at least happyish) ending.
It isn't his predicaments that were hilarious to me, it was everything he said. EVERYTHING! Not once did he scream "she must be lashed" or its equivalent that I was not on the floor in hysterics.
Here is my short review of CofD:http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...
I had already posted it someone else on this site but The Trial is getting so big that it is becoming more important for posters to try to put their words under the right topic just for the sake of continuity and reference.
Kathy wrote: "Diane wrote: "I am fascinated by the difference of opinions for this book. Why is it that some of us find Ignatious absolutely hilarious, while others of us (myself included) find him to be utterl..."The same was true for me, Kathy! The lashings are hilarious.
I have read some refer to 'the happy ending' of CofD. I didn't think it was happy or an ending. Ignatius takes his troubled self off to a new location. He is even riding fearfully in the back seat to protect himself from a crash. I think this change of location is sometimes called the 'geographic cure.' He is still the same (I would say) mentally damaged, impoverished person that he has been. Why is there any reason to expect that he will find better outcomes in his new location? His messed up, unhappy life seems likely to go on until the end of his life, valve opening and closing.
Larry wrote: "I have read some refer to 'the happy ending' of CofD. I didn't think it was happy or an ending. I am one of the some who referred to it as such. Perhaps "hopeful ending" would have been better. He loves Myrna and I suspect she loves him. Are they both damaged and most likely mentally ill? Yes, almost certainly, but maybe things are better, at least for a little while. There is just something about people in love driving off into the sunset that injects at least a note of hopefulness into the story. It was the way that Ignatius put her pigtail up to his moustache happily - the only affectionate thing I recall him doing in the entire novel - it seemed hopeful, if not happy. Maybe I am just a hopeless romantic or in denial, but I like it better that way than thinking of Ignatius being as miserable in NYC as he was in New Orleans.
Gosh, I read this so long ago, and while I haven't reread it, I am looking forward to following the discussion.
Kathy wrote: "Larry wrote: "I have read some refer to 'the happy ending' of CofD. I didn't think it was happy or an ending. I am one of the some who referred to it as such. Perhaps "hopeful ending" would have ..."
Am I the only one who thinks they don't even make it out of LA before Myrna kicks him out of the car??
Tajma wrote: "Am I the only one who thinks they don't even make it out of LA before Myrna kicks him out of the car??"I just read the last three pages again. I think you could make a pretty good case for her putting him off on the side of the road!
The symbolism of the pigtail and the moustache? I would like to think of it as a good sign. She did come all the way from NY to NO. But he is still so self centered that his action of possible endearment seems to be more about him than them. He is using her to make himself feel better. (And there is the 'paws' thing again, whatever that means.)
Did Ignatius bring any money with him for his new life? No. He hasn't got any money to help finance their couple-ness. Can they 'live on love' like George Jones and Tammy Wynette?
Diane wrote: "I am fascinated by the difference of opinions for this book. Why is it that some of us find Ignatious absolutely hilarious, while others of us (myself included) find him to be utterly repugnant? ..."You said that so well! I have known people like him and never actually enjoyed them!
Lisa wrote: "Diane wrote: "I am fascinated by the difference of opinions for this book. Why is it that some of us find Ignatious absolutely hilarious, while others of us (myself included) find him to be utterl..."I find Ignatius utterly repugnant and absolutely hilarious at the same time. I've never met anyone even remotely similar to this character and am astounded to hear people say they know someone like this. Certainly, some aspects of his personality are to be found in many people but his particularly misanthropic combination of character flaws? Yikes!
Larry wrote Did Ignatius bring any money with him for his new life? No. He hasn't got any money to help finance their couple-ness. Can they 'live on love' like George Jones and Tammy Wynette?..."Well, I just assumed that they would be living off the money that Myrna gets from her father.
Mod
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Although I assume little, I'd put money on that. The ending's interpretation is very much up to the reader. However, Ignatius and Myrna were happy co-conspirators against the world long before she helped him cut the apron strings. There is something quite hopeful as he smells Myrna's ponytail as they're driving out of NOLA. Yeah, I think they made it across the Louisiana Line and are doddering around Central Park, alternately feeding the pigeons when they're not occupying Wall Street.
Stevens
Diane wrote: "I am fascinated by the difference of opinions for this book...."I found him repugnant, too. I kept hoping his valve would close permanently and he would explode. The funniest parts to me were when Toole went slapstick. I could see him writing some hideous, explosive pile-up involving the cemented valve and Ignatius' demise--but it was just wishful thinking.
I think you may be on to something when you say that the people who don't care for the book knew/know someone like Ignatius.
Larry wrote: "I have read some refer to 'the happy ending' of CofD. I didn't think it was happy or an ending. Ignatius takes his troubled self off to a new location...."My thought was "look out Manhattan!"
Everitt wrote: "I think that endings like ACOD are very reader dependent. I too viewed it as hopeful Kathy. I would like to believe people can change their bad behavior and make a new life for themselves...."I don't think it's a case of people in general not changing their bad behavior--I think it's more a case of the book not being about people changing their bad behavior. At any rate, Ignatius' role in the book is that of catalyst. I wouldn't expect his behavior to ever change within the context of the "CofD" universe.
1. Walker Percy (in the Introduction) uses the words gargantuan and Falstaffian to describe Ignatius. Is it only his size that makes Ignatius seem larger than life? Percy likens him to the late screen comic Oliver Hardy. To which more recent personalities could Ignatius be compared?I would put "political pundits" (of any political persuasion) in that group, especially if they don't have a specifically identified profession other than "pundit". Ignatius' seems to consider himself an expert on the medieval version with his focus on "theology and geometry".
7. Ignatius thinks of himself as a knight errant seeking to set the modern world in line with his theories of good taste and solid geometry. Are his efforts doomed to failure? Has he chosen his quests unwisely or does the fault lie in his personality? Is the way he views the world askew?This is the most fascinating aspect of Ignatius to me. If, for just a few moments, you can get past the valve and view his brain with a cold, calculating, medieval eye, you can make sense of the turmoil. His quests begin to make sense. Are the uneducated peasants that surround him important, especially as individuals? No.
I don't think that he's chosen his quests unwisely. He may be doomed to failure; if so, it's because that what would work as a quest for him doesn't exist in the century in which he lives. The musky minx Minkoff, on the other hand, is living in the right time and place for her craziness to thrive without too much opposition.
9. Although the book is longer than the average novel, Walker Percy fought against it being severely edited. What do you think of his decision? If you were to expand or cut something, what would it be?I would cut some of the endless Ignatius dialogue. I think we get it.
14. In a letter dated March 5, 1965, Toole critiques his own novel writing that he “was certain that the Levys were the book’s worst flaw” and “that couple kept slipping from my grasp as I tried to manipulate them throughout the book” (Nevils and Hardy, page 139). What did he mean? And do you agree? Are they the only characters who don’t come to life? Toole lauds other characters as being representative of New Orleans. Who do you think they might be? I understand what he means. I think they are another couple like Ignatius and his mother (Mrs. Levy = Ignatius; Mr. Levy = Mrs. Reilly). They may have been necessary for his representation of New Orleans, but I can see how the couple might have gotten away from him as characters in this respect.
Jessie wrote: "14. In a letter dated March 5, 1965, Toole critiques his own novel writing that he “was certain that the Levys were the book’s worst flaw” "Well, I may be in the minority here, but I found Gus Levy to be one of the more hilarious characters in the whole book. In his Mitt Romney way, he is always compared to the memory of his Dad and is generally found wanting. Gus felt like a relatively normal guy dumped into the middle of various crazy situations who, for the most part, decides to look the other way rather than get sucked into all the drama. I loved all his snarky comments to Mrs. Levy, having to stop frequently when reading their conversations due to laughing too hard.
Discussion Question: 5. Can New York survive Ignatius? What possibilities do you see for [Myrna and Ignatius] them?Absolutely: the city's parade of humanity would grow even more wonderfully bizarre than it already is with Ignatius billowing through its streets, hanging out in its cafes. Ignatius belongs in NYC. He has the flawed soul, towering intellect and lashing tongue to match any New Yorker. He'd be with people who'd understand and appreciate his worldview, and his impatience with "offenses against taste and decency" would doubtless amuse NY sophisticates. Myrna has suffered through many horrid affairs. She and Ignatius are crazy in love with each other, and they will work things out in group therapy. He will find a good job at the New York Public Library. She will work at Juilliard and will be constantly pregnant. She will wear her hair in a long braid even when it's gray. They will live in the Village and have tons of friends and children. Also cats.
Discussion Question 1. Walker Percy (in the Introduction) uses the words gargantuan and Falstaffian to describe Ignatius. Is it only his size that makes Ignatius seem larger than life? His elevated language, grandiosity and elephantine exaggerations, his pomposity are all magnificently overblown and in sharp, even sad contrast with his emotionally and intellectually impoverished life.
Elle wrote: "Discussion Question: 5. Can New York survive Ignatius? What possibilities do you see for [Myrna and Ignatius] them?Absolutely: the city's parade of humanity would grow even more wonderfully bizarre than it already is with Ignatius billowing through its streets, hanging out in its cafes"
Elle, your entire response to this question tickled me beyond description. Thank you for the best laugh I have had all day!
Kathy wrote: "Elle wrote: "Discussion Question: 5. Can New York survive Ignatius? What possibilities do you see for [Myrna and Ignatius] them?Absolutely: the city's parade of humanity would grow even more wond..."
Oh Kathy, Thank you! You've made my day!
Moustache query:Kathy wrote: It was the way that Ignatius put her pigtail up to his moustache happily - the only affectionate thing I recall him doing in the entire novel -
We have a big agenda for discussion, but do you think a question/message on Ignatius's moustache might engender insightful comments? Moustache is the very last word in the book. And it's described as 'wet.' Could this be meaningful?
Mod
Absolutely: the city's parade of humanity would grow even more wonderfully bizar..."
Absolutely wonderful commentary. However, if you will find a copy of the film "Woodstock," Ignatius and Myrna are clearly visible in a number of scenes. *koff*
Of course, being in Reno, Nevada--don't ask. It's a long story. I'm pretty sure I caught a glimpse of the lovebirds renewing their vows at one of the wedding chapels on Virginia St. As we were walking down to the Truckee River, MJ asked, "Is it just me, or are people out here just really different," as a young woman in a fishnet body stocking bounced by.
Lawyer Stevens
What I wonder: What would've happened if Ignatius hadn't gotten away with Myrna? Would he have ended up in a mental home? How would his conversation with the psychologist have looked like? And, most important, is he really crazy? Yes, he definitely has a different world view than the rest of humanity, but does that make him crazy?
